Curse

Felixious · May 12, 2008, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some guy from GWW

Things that hits trough SF; riposte,deadly riposte,gladiators defense,aftershock,bed of coals, churning earth,crystal wave,tenai’s crystals,tenais wind,lightningtouch,shock,whirlwind, sliverarmor,inferno,lavafont,choking gas,spike trap,flame trap,barbed trap,dust trap,piercing trap,vipers nest,ignite arrows,aura of thorns,aura of holy might,chilling victory,dust cloak,grenths aura,grenths fingers,heart of holy flame,mystic sandstorm,mystic twister,zealous renewal,zealots fire,reversal of damage,bane signet,signet of judgement,shield of judgement,symbol of wrath,barbed signet,dark aura,necrotic transversal,poisoned heart,putrid explosion,signet of agony,signet of sorrow,suffering,touch of agony,unholy feast,vampiric bite, vampiric touch,vampiric swarm,vile touch,chiblains,wallows bite,well of the profane, blackout, illusionary weaponry,leech signet,signet of clumsiness,signet of disenchantment,signet of disruption,signet of distraction,signet of humility,ancestors rage,cruel was daoshen,disenchantment,grasping was kuurong,lamentation,vengeful was khenhei,vengeful weapon,iron palm,viper’s defense,entangling asp,expunge enchantments

Thats about 70+ skills. Use your imagination.

Lykan · May 12, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker

he can be invincible all he want but the damage he'll be dealing is very low

They dont plan to kill, the plan is to survive long enough that the other team gets bored and resigns.

[leech signet] btw

Zahr Dalsk · May 12, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

So wait...how does that not make it a stupid skill? *waits*

Because it's used in farming, which is one of the most important and accepted parts of an MMO.

Darkobra · May 12, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

just because something has a counter doesn't make it balanced.

one of those signets makes you lose all energy (wow...so useful)

As opposed to sitting staring at them and calling them naughty, naughty names?

BlueNovember · May 12, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felixious

Thats about 70+ skills. Use your imagination.

Have you even looked at that list?
_riposte_? How is that remotely useful. Like a griefer is going to go autoattack a riposte char for _friggin ages_ in order to kill himself.

Nearly all of that list require either the sf user to hit something, stand in aoe, or be near a corpse. Of the remainder, either they don't do enough damage to kill the user (which is the whole point, and bear in mind they'll have D-charge and other minor heals) or are too obscure to be useful.

Shock or Leach sig are the only real sensible counters. With the advent of PD leach sig is not really carried, perhaps on a PB bar. Leaves Shock, and most balanced teams use x/A for telespike, so that's not common either.

Lamentation goes through sf despite being a targeted spell o0. Really?

miskav · May 12, 2008, 05:30 PM // 17:30

It's not exactly balanced, that's true.
But all we can do is hope the PvP/PvE split will solve it.

Tyla · May 12, 2008, 05:37 PM // 17:37

JUS COUNTER IT NUUB! /sarcasm

Anyway, this thing should be turned into a PvE skill.
What other service does it provide in PvP other than griefing?

Why should you need to prepare to beat these when you could prepare to beat real teams?

This isn't about a little fame, this is about people wasting other's time.

And Felixous, half of those skills rely on the SF 'Sin being retarded and not knowing how to run it, the majority of which are bad, and one of them is a PvE-only skill.

Only Hum Sig which is viable, and then, not every team runs a Mesmer. Sure, Ancestor's Rage, but they usually have heals.

tmakinen · May 12, 2008, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Signet of Humility teaches perma-SF sins some humility, and it's a decent utility skill on a mesmer anyway.

HawkofStorms · May 12, 2008, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Really, the "best" counter to SF is tranquility. Screws up the timing of everything and can be placed on a lot of ranger builds in HA anyways. But yes, I'm pretty sure this will be one of the first skills to be changed for PvE/PvP balancing split, or at least SHOULD be one of the first skills.

Tyla · May 12, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Yes, but Hawk, that belongs in gimmicky builds.

BlackSephir · May 12, 2008, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

I think Shadow Form is the stupidest skill created for the stupidest profession in the game, and they're not going to do anything about it. SF-griefing has been nerfed in the past and the lil' children just found new ways to aggravate with it.

It's been a problem forever, it's not going to change now.

Also, it's not really endless. There IS downtime for SF, it's just very brief, and the other sin skills allow them to get away most of the time before they can be put out of everyone's misery.

I like how you call a class stupid, then show your ignorance when talking about downtime in SF, thus proving you're clueless.
Repeating what other 'role models' say without thinking for yourself is bad.

When used 'properly' there's no downtime in SF.

DarkNecrid · May 12, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

I like how you call a class stupid, then show your ignorance when talking about downtime in SF, thus proving you're clueless.
Repeating what other 'role models' say without thinking for yourself is bad.

When used 'properly' there's no downtime in SF.

being wrong about one thing does not negate the rest of his point.

Fug the Unwashed · May 12, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Holy ever-loving Balthazar, Batman! Sounds like the touch-ranger whining of many a fortnight ago...B-O-O- H-O-O...the whole problem does NOT rest in the build, but in the lack of implementation of effective counters. AND YES, there are a few. Just because people are comfortable with builds that don't include counters and don't want to change doesn't mean the skill needs nerfing...same arguments were used regarding touch rangers, yet without a nerf, that build has become less frequently used due to counters and adjustments in other builds...It's what keeps the game dynamic! Everyone who lacks imagination likes to say folks are being sarcastic "just counter noob!"...not true, it's just good advice. Look into the possibilities and adjust. there are a lot of skills being discounted that can easily be used against a variety of opponents that can help counter a Shadow Form assassin...use your imagination, and if you don't have one, just copy a build from Guildwiki like you normally do. I have faced these same guys and with a little teamwork and effort, taken them down...It only took getting stuck with one ONE time brfore I figured out that a minor adjustment to my builds (yes, more than one) makes life a little more difficult for the SF ASS-assin. In the words of my own mother, "Don't like it? Adjust."

BlackSephir · May 12, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

being wrong about one thing does not negate the rest of his point.

Simply saying that something is stupid doesn't mean it is.

Navaros · May 12, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Of course it's balanced, and contrary to the OP, it's not griefing.

If you can't kill him, you didn't win. So you don't deserve to have "won". People have suggested counters to prevent the inability to kill him. If those complaining can't be bothered to bring the counters, then it's doubly the fault of those complaining about Shadow Form for not being able to kill him.

BlackSephir · May 12, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Of course it's balanced, and contrary to the OP, it's not griefing.

If you can't kill him, you didn't win. So you don't deserve to have "won". People have suggested counters to prevent the inability to kill him. If those complaining can't be bothered to bring the counters, then it's doubly the fault of those complaining about Shadow Form for not being able to kill him.

Seems like Shock isn't popular enough to be considered counter.
And if they can't interrupt 2s Arcane Echo with 3/4 Shock... Maybe it's too early for HA.

Tyla · May 12, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

I'm glad this thread got moved out of Riverside. Less idiots.

Get a clue or go back to Riverside to the rest who remain here.

Ctb · May 12, 2008, 07:02 PM // 19:02

I can't believe this is even still up for debate. The very fact that the build - of which SF is the key skill - is used with ill intentions ought to be enough evidence that it's problematic.

Quote:

but in the lack of implementation of effective counters.

The skill's purpose is to make the sin nearly invincible. What difference does it make if you just nuke the skill or add counters, when the intention of either is to completely subvert the entire purpose of the skill?

moko · May 12, 2008, 07:04 PM // 19:04

o man time to close idiocy

HAI IM A NAZIMOD.

Edit: dammit, it shows me editing it